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	<title>Comments on: WebInno Panel PR Bashing: Harsh, But Fair</title>
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	<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/</link>
	<description>We tell the truth.</description>
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		<title>By: Web Innovators Group &#187; One Week after WebInno23 – Quick Recap</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Web Innovators Group &#187; One Week after WebInno23 – Quick Recap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 00:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-58</guid>
		<description>[...] Chuck Tanowitz, Nathan Burke, Kellye Crane all weighed in their thoughts, with panel moderator Mike Troiano and panelist Wade Roush responding.  The entire conversation is definitely worth a read, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chuck Tanowitz, Nathan Burke, Kellye Crane all weighed in their thoughts, with panel moderator Mike Troiano and panelist Wade Roush responding.  The entire conversation is definitely worth a read, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Asking the Right Questions about PR &#171; Fresh Ground</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Asking the Right Questions about PR &#171; Fresh Ground</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-56</guid>
		<description>[...] the recent Web Innovation Night in Boston. I’m not going rehash it all here (you can read several good posts on the topic) but anyone trying to market their organization or product, especially those in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the recent Web Innovation Night in Boston. I’m not going rehash it all here (you can read several good posts on the topic) but anyone trying to market their organization or product, especially those in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: edwardboches</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>edwardboches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 02:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-106</guid>
		<description>Mike:&lt;br&gt;Interesting.  I know for a fact that we have dozens of journalists, including those at the NY Times and WSJ, along with numerous magazines who count on our PR people for insight, stories, connections, access and contributions.  That, of course, makes us of great value to clients and to press.  You obviously had a narrow panel.  As for PR people, their real value is in guiding and steering clients to understand how to present a public face.  How to be honest, accessible, and value adding.  Some new start up company with a sexy product that the world wants to know about may not need a PR agency if the press is knocking down the door.  But I would suggest that with the right people working on their behalf, the results would be 10 times what they&#039;d generate on their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike:<br />Interesting.  I know for a fact that we have dozens of journalists, including those at the NY Times and WSJ, along with numerous magazines who count on our PR people for insight, stories, connections, access and contributions.  That, of course, makes us of great value to clients and to press.  You obviously had a narrow panel.  As for PR people, their real value is in guiding and steering clients to understand how to present a public face.  How to be honest, accessible, and value adding.  Some new start up company with a sexy product that the world wants to know about may not need a PR agency if the press is knocking down the door.  But I would suggest that with the right people working on their behalf, the results would be 10 times what they&#39;d generate on their own.</p>
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		<title>By: edwardboches</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>edwardboches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 22:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Mike:&lt;br&gt;Interesting.  I know for a fact that we have dozens of journalists, including those at the NY Times and WSJ, along with numerous magazines who count on our PR people for insight, stories, connections, access and contributions.  That, of course, makes us of great value to clients and to press.  You obviously had a narrow panel.  As for PR people, their real value is in guiding and steering clients to understand how to present a public face.  How to be honest, accessible, and value adding.  Some new start up company with a sexy product that the world wants to know about may not need a PR agency if the press is knocking down the door.  But I would suggest that with the right people working on their behalf, the results would be 10 times what they&#039;d generate on their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike:<br />Interesting.  I know for a fact that we have dozens of journalists, including those at the NY Times and WSJ, along with numerous magazines who count on our PR people for insight, stories, connections, access and contributions.  That, of course, makes us of great value to clients and to press.  You obviously had a narrow panel.  As for PR people, their real value is in guiding and steering clients to understand how to present a public face.  How to be honest, accessible, and value adding.  Some new start up company with a sexy product that the world wants to know about may not need a PR agency if the press is knocking down the door.  But I would suggest that with the right people working on their behalf, the results would be 10 times what they&#39;d generate on their own.</p>
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		<title>By: markotoole</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>markotoole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-39</guid>
		<description>I get bootstrapping PR for start-ups but they need constructive advice not a PR agency reprimand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get bootstrapping PR for start-ups but they need constructive advice not a PR agency reprimand.</p>
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		<title>By: Apolinaras Sinkevicius</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Apolinaras Sinkevicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Great panel. You did a great job moderating and you also did a great job summarizing some of the controversy. As I&#039;ve mentioned in my comments to Bobbie&#039;s post ( &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.carltonprmarketing.com/public-relations/the-bad-part-of-mouthing-off-in-public-late-at-night#comment-192&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.carltonprmarketing.com/public-relati...&lt;/a&gt; ), PR folks got a little bit too sensitive. Session was about PR in the world of bootstrapping entrepreneurs. Many of the bootstrappers are 1st-time entrepreneurs. They don&#039;t know what they don&#039;t know. You have to let them make their own mistakes, do the hard work of chasing the journos. Only after they do that, they will appreciate more the professional help. The only reason for a founder to engage a PR pro in that stage is to get some coaching.&lt;br&gt;Journos did PR folks a favor. An educated client is a much more valuable client than the one who just engaged you because &quot;they need PR&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great panel. You did a great job moderating and you also did a great job summarizing some of the controversy. As I&#39;ve mentioned in my comments to Bobbie&#39;s post ( <a href="http://www.carltonprmarketing.com/public-relations/the-bad-part-of-mouthing-off-in-public-late-at-night#comment-192" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.carltonprmarketing.com/public-relati.." rel="nofollow">http://www.carltonprmarketing.com/public-relati..</a>. ), PR folks got a little bit too sensitive. Session was about PR in the world of bootstrapping entrepreneurs. Many of the bootstrappers are 1st-time entrepreneurs. They don&#39;t know what they don&#39;t know. You have to let them make their own mistakes, do the hard work of chasing the journos. Only after they do that, they will appreciate more the professional help. The only reason for a founder to engage a PR pro in that stage is to get some coaching.<br />Journos did PR folks a favor. An educated client is a much more valuable client than the one who just engaged you because &#8220;they need PR&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: jongreer</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>jongreer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-37</guid>
		<description>I took this story on in a blog post called &quot;Know-nothing journalists give bad advice about PR (again). check it out: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.catchingflack.com/2009/10/know-nothing-journalists-give-bad-pr-advice-again/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.catchingflack.com/2009/10/know-nothi...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took this story on in a blog post called &#8220;Know-nothing journalists give bad advice about PR (again). check it out: <a href="http://www.catchingflack.com/2009/10/know-nothing-journalists-give-bad-pr-advice-again/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.catchingflack.com/2009/10/know-nothi.." rel="nofollow">http://www.catchingflack.com/2009/10/know-nothi..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Why Entrepreneurs Should Hire Solo PR Pros&#160;&#124;&#160;Solo PR Pro &#124; Resources for Independent PR &#38; MarCom Consultants</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Entrepreneurs Should Hire Solo PR Pros&#160;&#124;&#160;Solo PR Pro &#124; Resources for Independent PR &#38; MarCom Consultants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-36</guid>
		<description>[...] Group on “An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Bootstrapping PR.” Excellent re-caps from those present at the discussion are available, but the gist is that the panel – sans a public relations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Group on “An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Bootstrapping PR.” Excellent re-caps from those present at the discussion are available, but the gist is that the panel – sans a public relations [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Zand</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Zand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 12:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the recap and new thoughts Mike and thanks to klkassa for putting me on her list. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Might be speaking out of turn here as I&#039;m late to bed/early to rise today: It&#039;s interesting to me that several medium and large PR agencies in our area have laid off (or &quot;reorganized&quot;) senior staffers associated with driving social media efforts and setting strategic direction for accounts. Agencies are struggling to balance bodies and bottom line in a downturn economy. There&#039;s a risk here in the quest to keep retainers above your $4K figure. Freelancers and smaller collectives (I&#039;m offering SEO, web design and PPC advertising through partners) are probably able to do a lot more for smaller firms, start-ups and entrepreneurs (the audience for the WebInno panel) &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I know plenty of &quot;junior staff&quot; who do great work, but aren&#039;t given the opportunity to try new approaches or build meaningful dialog with client contacts or even media. Too often, junior staffers are given a pub list and told to book meetings and fill a calendar. Imagine what happens when the journalist or blogger is blanketed by the same requests for time with no background on the company or quick statement on why it&#039;s different &amp; deserves attention. It&#039;s almost impossible to cut through the clutter and stand out - especially if you haven&#039;t been taught how to pitch in a paragraph or pick up a phone and serve a reporter&#039;s needs (not just a client&#039;s demands of page 1).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I get tired of bashing and backlash at bad PR, but then again, it&#039;s existence and grumpy journalists and panels make it a lot easier for me to get results for my clients ;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the recap and new thoughts Mike and thanks to klkassa for putting me on her list. </p>
<p>Might be speaking out of turn here as I&#39;m late to bed/early to rise today: It&#39;s interesting to me that several medium and large PR agencies in our area have laid off (or &#8220;reorganized&#8221;) senior staffers associated with driving social media efforts and setting strategic direction for accounts. Agencies are struggling to balance bodies and bottom line in a downturn economy. There&#39;s a risk here in the quest to keep retainers above your $4K figure. Freelancers and smaller collectives (I&#39;m offering SEO, web design and PPC advertising through partners) are probably able to do a lot more for smaller firms, start-ups and entrepreneurs (the audience for the WebInno panel) </p>
<p>I know plenty of &#8220;junior staff&#8221; who do great work, but aren&#39;t given the opportunity to try new approaches or build meaningful dialog with client contacts or even media. Too often, junior staffers are given a pub list and told to book meetings and fill a calendar. Imagine what happens when the journalist or blogger is blanketed by the same requests for time with no background on the company or quick statement on why it&#39;s different &#038; deserves attention. It&#39;s almost impossible to cut through the clutter and stand out &#8211; especially if you haven&#39;t been taught how to pitch in a paragraph or pick up a phone and serve a reporter&#39;s needs (not just a client&#39;s demands of page 1).</p>
<p>I get tired of bashing and backlash at bad PR, but then again, it&#39;s existence and grumpy journalists and panels make it a lot easier for me to get results for my clients <img src='http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: Ronin Marketeer &#187; The Agency of 2012</title>
		<link>http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/2009/09/webinno-panel-pr-bashing-harsh-but-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronin Marketeer &#187; The Agency of 2012</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 03:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.holland-mark.com/blog/?p=160#comment-33</guid>
		<description>[...] moderator for the session I wrote about yesterday pulled together some interesting comments from the session last night (even some of mine!). Some very good stuff from the person that stepped up to ask where the PR [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] moderator for the session I wrote about yesterday pulled together some interesting comments from the session last night (even some of mine!). Some very good stuff from the person that stepped up to ask where the PR [...]</p>
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